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Wikipedia talk:Media help

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[edit] OGG

Very surprising that Wikipedia would stick with something that the typical user can't figure out. That doesn't make the user stupid, just cuz they don't want to jack with codecs, or install Ubuntu. But it kind of seems to be a punishment for the user not being able to, or just not wanting to do that. Hell, like the last time OGG reared it's head, all I wanted to do was hear how to pronounce "laissez faire". Wikipedia's answer: forget it. That's like going to the dentist with a cavity and the dude hands you the freakin' drill. With so much else going for it, to encode sound files--which could be so useful--in this format, makes no sense to me. Not down on OGG, it's cool for Nix junkies, and I know that as with many open source creations, probably has some superior traits to the other sounds formats hacked out by software corporations. But to make something unusable for the vast majority of users, just because of a leaning towards a certain operating system? If you have to have OGG, put some other options side by side. Surely you can figure that out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.177.184.105 (talk) 04:44, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why does Wikipedia have any problem with my system?

I play oggs just easily... a simple link is okay for me and will not spit nonsense like others about free formats. I like them and anyone can play ogg. Except on wikipedia. I just don't understand why WP claims to scan my system for ogg support which it cannot!

Why can't things be just easy? World Wide Web has hyperlinks.

81.0.198.173 (talk) 12:06, 3 September 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Doesn't work

I am on a Kubuntu Linux computer with VLC installed and all medibuntu codecs, reading Wikipedia from Firefox 2.0.0.11. I would expect that Wikipedia would simply detect my system and open VLC when I try to play the media file. Instead, a message pops up saying, "Sorry, your system does not appear to have any supported player software. Please download a player." Shouldn't Wikipedia just let me download the file so I can manually play it in VLC? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.33.239 (talk) 02:19, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This is stupid

I can understand the rationale for using ogg files instead of mp3s or another format, but the net effect is that most people just never hear the audio content. If you're going to require people to use your open-source alternative, I think it only makes sense to embed the player into the site. Is that possible? If not, you're stuck with sacrificing usability in order to make a philosophical point and defend against some ridiculous future scenario where wikipedia gets sued for using mp3s or wmvs on their site. I notice that most pictures are JPEGs - aren't you concerned about the fact that people have asserted that they own a patent on that filetype.

Stuff like this is far and away the worst part of Wikipedia. You're all such pedants about nonsense to the point where you're crippling the site. 128.12.186.192 09:12, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

(separate user's comment) I quite agree. Having tried to get audio and video files to play on several Windows machines without success I can only conclude that 'open format' is a sick joke which really means 'just about useable by ubergeeks who hand-code their own Unix drivers'. Face it, folks: these are niche formats that simply aren't supported by popular computers and thus frustrate would-be users.

Let's stick to industry-standard file formats - even if they are technically proprietary. Long live MP3! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.13.146.197 (talk • contribs)

Yes, using OGG on Wikipedia is a bloody stupid idea. Like the above poster, I have tried, tried, tried to install Ogg codecs on a variety of Windows machines, most recently following the instructions TO THE LETTER for the Windows Media oggcodecs 0.71.0946 on a newish, pretty clean install of Vista Home Premium. And guess what? it doesn't work. Nada, nil, zip. Yet another platform where Wikipedia fails miserably. Pretty much everything else in Wikipedia is joy - why, why, why stick to an audio format that JUST PLAIN DOESN'T WORK IN THE REAL WORLD? We had 'burn the GIFs' - NOW IS THE TIME TO BURN THE OGGs.

  • Thank you, someone needed to say it - your goal is either to spread knowledge or spread ideology. This is the same damn issue as with IPA - don't FORCE the end users to change their ways just because of some novel idea. Wikipedia is here to EDUCATE the public, not to evangelize some OSS ideals. Please, start thinking about the goals of this site and stop pushing people around. I've got a BS in ComSci and I still haven't heard a single .ogg file play off of an article. * —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.224.228.66 (talk) 08:25, 9 February 2008 (UTC)
Ogg Vorbis, works just fine, just follow the instructions and you will have it working in a minute. I managed and I'm not Einstein. Jackaranga 07:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
Yeah, so long as you're on your own computer, it's quite doable. What about people on public or shared computers upon which they have no business installing software of any kind? Even those computers are generally equipped to play .mp3 files. I second the OP as well, this is a little bit silly. [+added:]Also, I know there's at least one open source mp3 format; it's the only one I use on my own computer.71.61.64.113 20:53, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
Well I followed the instructions and it works sometimes, but quite often it just glitches up for me and I have to restart my internet browser 24.65.104.205 23:39, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with OP. Why go out of our way to reduce the usability of the site? Everyone can play MP3, it's counter-productive to waste time on silly formats that almost no computers can play on the default setup (or even a reasonable customized setup). 24.84.213.237 21:54, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

You can blame Windows Media Player for not supporting open formats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.129.33.32 (talk) 01:56, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

It still doesn't? Surely it's the only holdout left, by now! As for those who want idiot-friendly just grab a copy of Winamp. It (like most—if not all—third-party players) plays OggVorbis out of the box. Granted, this does require being allowed to install stuff. Alternately, complain to Micro,soft for not supporting a media format that's nearly a decade old, and par for the course in most every other OS family currently in development. [Please pardon my political digression; i realise that it, by itself, doesn't fix the problem. But people need to get noisy—especially when they're paying good money for stuff, and getting sold short.]
—überRegenbogen (talk) 10:37, 28 December 2007 (UTC)
WMP isn't the only one that doesn't support ogg. RealPlayer and Quicktime don't use it either. Doshindude (talk) 03:19, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree as to the reasoning with the third party computer owners. At school or libraries, which are often ran by people who's only goal in life is the furtherance of Microsoft's stupid unworkable software, you're pretty much stuck with windows media player. I've never been able to play any sound at school or their libraries. yes it would b ewonderful if we could all play in happy land with software that works, but we're stuck with internet explorer and windows media (refuses to)play(er). Wikipedia should at minimum mirror the files in .mp3 player-compatible formats (like one of the open source 'MP3' formats).

On the other hand it is laudable that they are pushing people to abandon incredibly annoying windows media and other formats. Even better that folks may abandon windows media player (that refuses to play media) for something like vlc. I guess you gotta motivate people to change and hurting them does that. By extension it hurts the libraries when people complain, same with schools. So while the effort is laudable the practical effect, the hurting folks to get them to change, is unnecessary. MP3 will be off patent soon enough (2012 by all reasonable accounts I believe) even if you don't use a free 'MP3' encoder. People at schools and libraries are stuck with "microsoft is the entire world" software- and such refuses to play anything not in $Micro$oft$ format. At least add alternatives--Δζ (talk) 06:22, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

As it turns out, you can apply the same logic to Wikipedia, too. You can blame them for not using the most common and most widely-installed media formats, choosing instead another geek-tech shibboleth and replacing one set of putative licensing restrictions (i.e., patents) with another (the GPL). If you don't think the conditions imposed by the GPL are onerous, then why don't the Windows Media or Quicktime, the two most profligate commercial media libraries, support it? The proof of the pudding is in the eating.--96.245.223.207 (talk) 06:43, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia helps OGG

I hope you do realize that Wikipedia helps distribute OGG codecs and players to a lot of people. Maybe a call for media files in order to have a "Sound file of the day" or "Video of the day" feature would help spread OGG even further. After all, isn't this one of the points Jimmy Wales talked about in Frankfurt this week?! --Hullbr3ach 19:44, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Indeed, and this is one of the main reasons I contribute sound files. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 21:10, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
I don't see why something that democratizes information the way Wikipedia does should be used as a platform for Jimmy Wales's nerdpolitik advancement; there are plenty of other commendable alternatives to OGG.71.61.64.113 20:56, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
I agree, spreading OGG is ideological nonsense. Use a format that people can actually play and stop trying to shove open-source politics down people's throat. 24.16.88.14 (talk) 16:41, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite

Since I've started putting up videos, I've gone ahead and rewritten this page. I need people who are familiar with ogg vorbis/theora on Mac and Linux/Unix to add instructions for getting it working on those platforms as well.

Remember, only list players here that will work with *any* .ogg file (that is, it should work with both vorbis and theora). →Raul654 18:17, Apr 28, 2005 (UTC)

According to the article one is for sound while the other is for video. Some people are interested in one but not the other. A-giau 03:42, 10 May 2005 (UTC)
Vorbis is for sound, Theora is for video, and both use .ogg as their extension. Rather than hoping our viewers are knowledgable to tell the difference between them, we'll just do the very easy thing and limit our recommendations to players that can do *all* ogg files. →Raul654 23:01, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
Ogg is a container format. Vorbis (audio) and Theora (video) are stream formats that it can contain. It is not alone. Mkv,AVI,ASF are also containers. Come right down to it, so are MPEG-1,2,4. Some common types of media are given special filename extensions based upon their containees, rather than their containers. A .mp3 file is MPEG-1 or 2 containing only an Audio Layer 3 stream. A .wmv or .wma file is typically ASF containing Windows Media Video and/or audio.)
—überRegenbogen (talk) 10:57, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Material intended specifically for Wikipedia editors should appear elsewhere

There already is a page whose purpose is to teach Wikipedia editors how to make media files. It is located here:

Wikipedia:Sound

This article, Wikipedia:Media help, is meant not for editors but for readers--and that includes people who aren't computer experts. For this reason, we should keep Wikipedia:Media help as short as possible, and written in very plain language.

I recommend that people with the relevant expertise update Wikipedia:Sound and rename it Wikipedia:Media, in parallel with the history of this page.

The material I just removed, which I hope will soon be integrated into Wikipedia:Sound or Wikipedia:Media, is repeated below.

Opus33 16:10, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

==Making oggs==
===Video===
Because most popular movie/audio formats are patented and require a royalty, there are no free all purpose video converters.
* For video, ffmpeg2theora is a command line encoder capable of converting numerous file formats (.mov, .mpg, .mpeg, .avi) into Ogg Theora. It works on Windows, Macintosh, and Linux/Unix.
*You can also use the encoder_example application included with libtheora in combination with a program like MPlayer [1] that is capable of dumping raw (yuv4mpeg) video and sound to encode in Ogg Theora.
*For assistance with conversion, try contacting:
**Raul654
**brian0918 (Windows only)
===Audio===
* For audio, Audacity is a high quality sound editor for Windows, Macintosh, and Linux/Unix. To use Audacity on mp3s, it requires that you install LAME.
**Lame download page for Windows
**Lame download page for Macintosh
*The command-line tool mpg321, based on libmad is a free mp3 decoder that can be used to play or decode mp3 files. The result can be encoded into Ogg Vorbis using oggenc or another vorbis-enabled encoder.
For technical assistance with conversion, try contacting:
** The Uninvited Co., Inc.

[edit] Videos work!

The videos work great on Mac and Linux! Thanks! --Gmaxwell 04:45, 3 May 2005 (UTC)

They also work great in Windows if you hunt down the right codecs... I had to anyways, so it was another good reason to find them. - Thekittenofterra 08:16, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] xine should get mentioned

IMHO xine should be mentioned before totem, since totem is only an alternative frontend for the xinelib. kaffeine as KDE frontend should also get mentioned, since there are enough distributions with KDE. The default player in debian and SuSE do play theora already out of the box.

Does anyone know why the mimetype is ogg and not ogm for movies ? ogg let start the pure sound player usually while ogm would let start a video player.

I asked around before writing this page, and that was one of the questions I asked. I'm told that Ogm is for files with mpeg video and ogg vorbis audio. Mpeg, being patented, is unusable on Wikipedia; therefore, no ogm files on Wikipedia. Ogg is used for files that include theora video, vorbis audio, or both. →Raul654 17:43, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Winamp

Yes, it only plays Vorbis files. However, wouldn't it be helpful to include it and specify its limitation? Since it is so popular, people will inevitably wonder why it isn't on the list. -Willmcw 22:08, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

Here's the crux of the problem. Winamp will tend to associate .ogg files (which can be either Theora or Vorbis) with itself, and people will inevitably download Theora files, play them in in the default player (winamp), and wonder why it is busted. Next, they'll click on the 'media help' link, come here, see winamp on the list of files, and wonder why it doesn't work. (You're assuming they are competent enough to launch a different player when they happen to see the movie file icon - you must be very optomistic) My solution is simply not to list it. If you can think of something better, please suggest it. →Raul654 22:12, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
Even if we don't say anything about Winamp the above scenarios is still likely for those who already have Winamp on their system. Why not add what you just explained? That would seem to provide more "help" than just omitting all reference to it. -Willmcw (01:39, May 19, 2005 (UTC))
Winamp will be the most common program people will have for playing oggs. I imagine that because of bandwidth limitations the number of audio files will greatly surpass the number the video files. With this in mind I think it is counterproductive to pretend that winamp doesn't play oggs. With ogg support in itunes broken with QT7 winamp is as close to the mainstream as ogg gets. Secretlondon 20:16, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
I have no problem listing winamp here, if and when it supports natively (or can be made to support) both theora and vorbis. Until that time, I think we can make due with the ones already listed here that are capable of doing both, and save ourselves the headache of providing tech support to hundreds or thousands of people who can't figure out why their ogg file won't play in winamp. →Raul654 22:11, 14 September 2005 (UTC)
There is currently a paragraph which reads:
It is highly recommended that you use a program which is capable of playing both Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora files. The reason is that both files use the same file extension, namely .ogg.
How about adding, Programs which can only play Ogg Vorbis files, such as Winamp, will still attempt to load Ogg Theora files but will fail to play them. Would that cover the topic? -Willmcw 03:26, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
Winamp is capable of playing Theora files. Just install the directshow filters from [2], then go to winamp preferences, go to Input (under Plug-ins), select Nullsoft Directshow Decoder and click the Configure button, and add ";OGG" to the list of extensions, and click OK. Now Winamp can play theora files. Reference: [3]. --pile0nadestalk | contribs 22:20, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
Indeed this does work in my WinAmp 5.1 'full' (free). Except it kind of breaks playing Vorbis files, as they go through the DirectShow filter, not WinAmp's own input plug-in which provides tag reading, which does things like enable the Media Library to pick them and order them correctly. Does someone need to make a Theora input for WinAmp...?

I just spent the better part of the last hour trying to reproduce that, to no effect. Nullsoft directshow is not included with Winamp (or at least the version I use, lite) by default. I spent quite a bit of time hunting it down [4] and trying to find out if that version (.94) is the newest version (which I was unable to do). I followed the rest of the directions, and it failed to play. →Raul654 22:45, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Well, it works for me with the full version which comes with it. --pile0nadestalk | contribs 22:47, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
What version of Nullsoft directshow are you using? →Raul654 22:49, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
v0.94, which is the latest version, as it comes with the latest version of Winamp, v5.094. --pile0nadestalk | contribs 22:54, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Ok, that's what I have. So I've followed the advice down the line, and it's not working. I asked in IRC, and user:FreplySpang (who has a non-lite version) tried it and failed too. We shouldn't be recommending this unless it's actually reliable and reproducable. →Raul654 23:02, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Well, that's weird. I don't know why it would'nt work for you. --pile0nadestalk | contribs 23:18, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

I followed the same steps as both of them and failed to get ogg files to play on my winamp, i am also using the most current version of winamp with the most current plugins

I used the above advice for Nullsoft with the newest Winamp and XP Pro AND Illuminable's OGG Codecs installed and voila! I could now cue up those H-Bomb test videos, complete with Stravinsky (I think) music. It saved me the bother of downloading WMP 10!

[edit] RealPlayer and HelixPlayer

It might be a good idea to mention RealPlayer and HelixPlayer for UNIX because they are much easier to install than VLC, XINE and MPlayer. They can play both Vorbis and Theora out-of-the-box on UNIX platforms and are available as precompiled binaries that work on all Linux distributions. There are plugins for the Windows version as well, but it's not necessary to mention it because DirectShow is easier to use.

http://www.real.com/linux https://helixcommunity.org https://player.helixcommunity.org/2004/downloads

-- 217.246.179.19 21:19, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Real player is the ABSOLUTE WORST video player in existance. I will absolutely not recommend that trash on anyone. →Raul654 21:33, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)
I completely agree. Also; the original statement is incorrect. Because Realplayer is non-free software, it is very hard to get it to work in most Unixes. VLC is far easier to get working, since it pretty much consists of one package, with no extra shit to make it work. --CalPaterson 21:22, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Video in articles

I just uploaded some video (

Image:La pluie a Bamako-debut juin.avi.ogg

), and now I would like to know how I can include this in articles... Guaka 00:30, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Use the video template. See Apollo 17 for an example. →Raul654 01:08, Jun 19, 2005 (UTC)
Isn't there a more integrated way? It would be cool to have a little box with a play button, so that it's more like an image that is on the page itself. Guaka 02:04, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Um, no, all images on Wikipedia redirect to their respective image pages. It is (almost) impossible to create a picture that, when you click on it, goes anywhere but its own image page. →Raul654 02:11, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)
Buffering... <2 sec of playback> Buffering...
This is frustrating! Guys you need to pick up your game re this display wiget or move to less open formats. BTW this was not IE3 on dialup, but on Firefox 2.0.0.11 w/ JRE 1.6.0_03 on WinXP SP2 on a 6.9Mbps ADSL connection!. Sorry to be so negative, I suppose it is a good start, but when we have other sites that do seamless video, we can't afford to look like the poorer cousin. Aleast give the option to pre-load!... aarrgh! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.210.143 (talk) 11:35, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MIME type

The .ogg media files seem to be getting served as MIME type "application/octetstream". Isn't there a more specific MIME type for Ogg format? Anyway, isn't "application/octet-stream" supposed to have a dash in it?

Doing :about plugin in firefox with the vlc plugin installed shows "application/x-ogg". It'd be great if (1) we used that MIME type or something else that will make it work (2) we took the google video src code and made a wikimedia player... basically the same idea of VLC plugin installer but without the restrictions. -- Kowey 02:48, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
The content type is now (the correct) application/ogg. However, it should probably be audio/vorbis for Ogg Vorbis when that type eventually gets registered (or maybe audio/x-vorbis in the mean time), and any equivalent type for the combination of Vorbis and Theora in Ogg.
--Joe Llywelyn Griffith Blakesley talk contrib 19:13, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Easier wording and layout for non-techies

I think this page needs to be made as easy as possible for non-editing end users who may have limited profficiency at installing new applications. Terms like "codec" will confuse/scare many users and should be avoided. Perhaps it would be better to use terminoligy such as "you may need to install free software in order to play audio and video files on wikipedia".

The whole thing could do with a friendlier layout. Think about Wikipedia:Introduction. Could we not do something along these lines with three tabs: INTRODUCTION, AUDIO and VIDEO? The Macromedia Flash installation page is also a good example of balance between ease of use and technical information. TreveXtalk 11:56, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

Done it. Any thoughts? TreveXtalk 13:19, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
Very nice. I thought "Click here to install software" might be a little scary for people who are used to viruses and spam, so I changed it to "Directions on installing software". —Keenan Pepper 22:34, 23 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] New idea for videos

Before, when we started putting videos in articles, it was debated whether they should be inline or at the end. It was decided to put them at the end because that blocky video box breaks the flow. Well, I think I know how to go with the flow. Let's say you're doing someone's biography, and you have video of an important event in their life, so you want it to be next to the event in the text. What you do is take a screencapture of the video, upload that, place the image in the article next to the event's text, and in the caption of the image, say something like "Still shot from footage of the Wright Brother's flight. See here for the full video." That caption would provide a link to the video, maybe with some sort of mini icon in the caption to indicate that there is a film clip. In this way, the flow wouldn't be broken up anymore than an image breaks up the flow, and the article isn't left with a bunch of videos randomly clumped at the end. How does that sound? — BRIAN0918 • 2005-11-1 03:28

[edit] OGG

Why does Wikipedia use .ogg files? I can't run them on anything on my computer:

  • Windows Media Player? NO
  • RealPlayer? NO
  • Quicktime Player? NO

and so on. Why not use .mp3? --Thelb4 21:29, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

I tried to download the RealPlayer extension, but it wouldn't even set up!! --Thelb4 21:33, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia doesn't use MP3 audio because the MP3 format is encumbered by patents, which make it impossible to legally encode MP3s with free software. Ogg Vorbis is guaranteed to be free of patents, and it's also technically superior. If you have a specific problem with the installation instructions, try to figure out what's wrong and make suggestions to improve the instructions, don't just whine. —Keenan Pepper 22:59, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
That's easy enough for you to say, Keenan Pepper. If those of us who can't get these dratted .ogg files to work could "figure out what's wrong" then we almost certainly wouldn't need any instructions in the first place. -- Picapica 20:59, 28 May 2006 (UTC) (standing up for the right to whine)
(To Thelb4) - Windows media player works just fine, just follow the directions on this page and install the codecs from illimunible. (To Picapica) We have directions here for every OS and are willing to work with people to solve their issues and/or make the directions more correct/intuitive/easy to follow. However, we will be doing so on *our* terms. To this end, one of the foundation's overriding goals is to make things Free (as in speech) and that means we must avoided patented formats. Raul654 21:04, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Many thanks for the speedy reply, Raul. It did inspire to make the umpteenth attempt, and, I am glad to say, this time successfully. The fly in the ointment proved to be "Once downloading has finished, run the setup program and follow the instructions on screen." I think some of you techies forget how profoundly ignorant some of us ordinary users are in IT matters. I can drive a car, but I haven't the faintest idea what it means when a mechanic tells me something like "all you have to do is advance the carburettor settings" (< I just made that up, btw; it probably doesn't make sense!). To people like me "Run the setup program and..." sounds horribly like "open the bonnet and..." -- when I don't even know where the bonnet catch is. It took me a fair amount of sweat, I can tell you, to find out just where that program was, let alone attempt to run it. However, I got there in the end. I don't think there is much danger of your insulting users by making instructions too easy to follow. Techies will recognize an idiot's guide as soon as they see one, and so won't even bother to read on. The rest of us will be very grateful. I retain the right to whine... but many thanks all the same. -- Picapica 21:54, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
  • I have downloaded the ogg codecs installer from illiminable and ran the wizard. When finished, I started WMP10 and went to tools>options>file types. The ogg file types were not checked (ogg files [oga], [spx] and [ogv]). Each time I check them, and go back in, they are unchecked again. I cannot get ogg files to play. I'm using Win XP. Any ideas why this isn't straightforward? Bswee 18:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
    • It depends on how you are trying to play them. Assuming you are downloading them to your hard drive and double-clicking on the files, you have to make sure the files are properly associated with WMP. Go to any open folder, and then: tools->folder options->file types tab->ogg->advanced. (If there isn't one for ogg, create a new one by clicking "new"). THe default option (highlighted in black) is what happens when you double click on a file. Click the default option, then edit, then change the path to the WMP (c:\program files\Windows Media Player\wmplayer.exe by default on most newer machines). Raul654 18:34, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
      • Wow, thanks, all taken care of. The was no association in Folder Options. Thanks a mill. Bswee 18:42, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

I am trying to convert some *.mov files to *.ogg... is there an app that will do this for me that is very easy to use... my OS is WindowsXP. ~mfinney

When I've done this in the past, I did a two step conversion: .mov -> mpeg using virtual dub, and then mpeg -> ogg using ffmpeg2theora. Raul654 22:26, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia using .ogg will add one more reason for your listed players (Real, WMP, QUicktime) to support them. If nobody uses it, nobody will have reasons to support it. I'm completely in favour of this choice. 201.212.255.118 19:50, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I am personally frustrated by the decision to only have .ogg files, which is not readily accessible with an 'off the shelf' computer. Doesn't that go against the whole idea of accessibility and making it easy for people to use wikipedia? Why not provide multiple file formats, if keeping .ogg files is such a big issue? I'm glad no one has come up with another brilliant idea like making wikipedia Linux only. --I 06:47, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is less about accessibility and more about self-diagnosed aspergian nerds circlejerking over how great their open-source Linux apps and filetypes are. Honestly, when was the last time you were "encumbered" by an MP3 patent? "Oh darn, I'd really like to play this sound effect, but I'd better check my local laws first to make sure I can use MP3. Oh, accursed gods, why can't these plebeians see the light? Obscure, difficult to use, clumsy filetypes are THE FUTURE!"
The notion that anyone who would rather use a universally-accepted format is "just whining" is ridiculous. AllOtherNamesTaken 03:55, 17 April 2007 (UTC)


OGG is a joke. Nobody uses it and trying to force it on people just results in the site being less useable. LAME will encode MP3 files that have no licensing issues whatsoever and is what should be used. 67.161.77.15 21:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


BETTER WAY TO WATCH OGG ON VISTA/XP USING WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER! I tried to use the instructions again and again. But alas, the oggs were all duds for me. A day or two ago I stumbled on a blog for ways to improve Windows, and I found this! Codec Pack. The only thing I am worried about is that you might have to open Windows Media Player's menu, and check off the codecs after the install, and the install is quiet large for the undeserving those with dial-up, or limited disk space. Plus its not available to Win98/ME/2000 if I understand right. So aside from all that its pretty neat. It grants access to more then just OGG too! SO I suggest we give this as an alternative, or something. If we can get more people to view media on Wikipedia, then it means we'll have more media! - Thekittenofterra 08:35, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Early discussion moved from Wikipedia talk:Audio help

Check the hydrogenaudio site. There is no dispute that the best Ogg Vorbis encoders produce better quality audio than the best MP3 encoders at the same bitrate. MP3 requires about a 20% increase in bitrate to make up the difference, even with the best encoders.

By the way, though this is mere semantics, it's not the MP3 format itself that is encumbered by patents. It's the encoding and decoding technlogy.

The Uninvited Co., Inc. 02:53, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Well.. it's semantics but... One of the Thomson patents covers perceptual encoding using subbanding. It's not possible to encode a valid MP3 file without violating the patent because it is very broad. Thus the claim that the format itself is encombered isn't *that* far from reality. (don't you love wiki's ability to have conversations spanning years?)--Gmaxwell 21:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Should this page be moved to the help namespace? -- Tarquin 11:21, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Yup; doesn't it belong at Help:Audio? —Michael Z. 2005-03-27 14:26 Z


I have changed the url for Ogg Vorbis support for windows from http://tobias.everwicked.com/oggds.htm to http://www.illiminable.com/ogg/ With this one you have not only Ogg Vorbis but also Ogg Speex, Ogg Theora and Ogg FLAC. Wikipedia does also use Ogg Theora for video so that is better. --Walter 22:49, 10 Apr 2005 (UTC)

--- Do you think the link to this page from the audio could be changed from the question mark to (help) or something like that. Thanks. Zscout370 11:18, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Promote VLC

Might I suggest you promote VLC more? It works all OS's except some older Macs. It's also open source and is simpler to install than a new codec pack on most systems. I'm not going to edit this page; you're doing a great job, but perhaps it might be easier to concentrate on one player. VLC, most of the time, is a "one size fits all" solution to most codecs. --CalPaterson 21:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, we can't really "promote" VLC because that would violate WP:NPOV, but you're welcome to add relevant facts in support of it. —Keenan Pepper 21:42, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Furthermore, none of these free media players are especially great. VLC, MPC, MPlayer, and even Microsofts WMP all fail under different circumstances and have various UI problems. VLC has particular problems with single-frame stepping, which is annoying when you're trying to really study something. 24.16.88.14 (talk) 16:49, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] What about other media problems?

What about a FAQ page for further questions about media? I have VLC and it plays .ogg files, but there's clipping on either end of short files (like single words) so that I sometimes can't hear anything. I'm sure I'll be able to fix the setting or make it play it in something else, but the people this guide is for would be stranded. There should be more info than just how to install the media players. There should also be a FAQ to address common problems.

--Everlong 18:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Can I upload mp3s?

reply on my talk page--hottie 10:15, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proposal to fix inaccuracy

I have just been pointed to this page, but it contains an important and often inaccurate assumption, which should be corrected. It says If your computer does not automatically play these files when you click on them, you can enable it to do so by downloading and installing free software from the Internet. This assumes that the user has control of the machine they are using. It is quite common for corporate PCs to be locked down, and other machines such as in Libraries or Cybercafés generally have the same limitation. In addition, I know computer users, particularly the Granny generation, who are not capable of installing software on their machines, and daren't risk it in case they break something which they will not be able to fix. Even Linux users can shy away from this task [5].

Normally, I'd just make the edit, but because the article has been dormant for some time, I instead propose the following new wording here. It is also more concise, being two words shorter : If your computer does not automatically play these files when you click on them, downloading and installing free software from the Internet can enable it to do so. What do people think? Stephen B Streater 20:49, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

At least one knowledgeable person has seen it, and no one objected, so I've fixed it. Stephen B Streater 22:46, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Firefox

i have a problem playin these files on firefox, it begin good, but when i clic the stop button it crash nd i have a steady loud beep tone that doesnt turn off nd i have to restart the computer. Anyone else have that problem or its just my sound card?--ometzit<col> 20:13, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cannot download media

This might be wrong place for my problem, but I want to bring it to someone's attention. I don't know who to contact regarding this and the relevant discussion page apparently wasn't enough to spread the word. The problem beeing - undownloadable media, in my case ogg file that cannot be downloaded. I get a file of 0 length. Actual sample not working is this Media:01 - Vivaldi Spring mvt 1 Allegro - John Harrison violin.ogg. Well it did work a few months ago, that I remember. But its been undownloadable for quite some time now. --Neikius 19:44, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I get the same error, both from the link you provided and the four seasons article itself. Hrm... damned odd. I don't have time to investigate right now, but I'll look into it further a little later. Raul654 21:16, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I had a talk with the server admins. For that particular file, problem is now fixed. Long story short - the lighthttpd implimentation Wikipedia relies on has a known bug that causes this behavior. For a given file, the problem can be fixed by purging the file (go to the image page, click edit, and in the URL, replace ?action=edit with ?action=purge) Raul654 06:23, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] KAR

.* files can be uploaded as midi files. In any case, I suggest *:kar files can be directly uploaded .--HybridBoy 08:10, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "MySQL" server/ system error 111

I'm experiencing problems playing media in my browser. I used to be able to watch videos from wikipedia in my browser but at some indeterminate time in the past, it stopped working. Every time I try to "watch in browser" I am given the following error message:

Warning: mysql_connect() [function.mysql-connect]: Lost connection to MySQL server at 'reading initial communication packet', system error: 111 in /home/gmaxwell/public_html/jorbis/JOrbisPlayer.php on line 32 Couldn't connect to database: Lost connection to MySQL server at 'reading initial communication packet', system error: 111

I am using Mozilla Firefox v.2.0.0.4. What could be my problem here? -albrozdude 01:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE I just tried something. By clicking "file info" and then using "play in browser" from the media page, I was able to view the video. However, attempting to do so via the article results in the error. In this case I am attempting to view media from Komodo dragon; however, this isn't the only media I've experienced the error with. -albrozdude 01:58, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
Okay, now it's working across the board. I did absolutely nothing, yet now I am able to play the media in my browser. Nevermind, I guess. -albrozdude 02:00, 1 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] How about embedded in flash or shockwave?

--Agreed. Flash is the de facto standard for audio and video on the Web, most people browsing Wikipedia have it installed, and it's easy for users to figure out. Why are we four years behind the curve on this one? 67.149.147.188 (talk) 19:25, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Different versions

I changed a version of a sample. If I click on the name of the song, VLC plays the old version, but while clicking on "play in browser" (Wikimedia player) plays the correct and updated version. Suggestions? ♫ Cricket02 15:58, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 'Play in Browser' stops before the end of the file

When I use 'Play in Browser' for an ogg audio file, the Java applet seems to stop playback before the end of the file is reached. If the sound is very short (e.g. the Wilhelm Scream) I only hear a very brief click lasting a fraction of a second before playback stops. The player 'thinks' it has played the whole file. Using Sun Java Standard Edition 6 version 1.6.0 under MS Windows XP. Any ideas? 217.155.138.250 16:08, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

I just checked it and I'd say the file is defective or not uploaded properly (Image:Wilhelm.ogg) because I can play other files fine. Maybe a note on the talk page of the file and/or article to alert someone would help. ♫ Cricket02 17:35, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Cricket02! Glad it's not just me, but other files also seem to stop before they end as well - e.g. Castle thunder (sound effect) plays ok, but seems to cut off before the end of the sound effect. Same with tarzan yell ?? 217.155.138.250 19:03, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I clicked on the file info of those clips, and they are very short, 47 kb and 97 kb respectively. In comparison, a typical 30-second sample of a song is around 130-150 kb. Seems they are copyrighted and used under fair-use, so there are restrictions when it comes to using recorded copyrighted material, i.e. 10% of the file or 30 seconds, whichever is less. I'd say that the clips, while short, are compliant and are 10% of the actual recording. So I'd say its definately not you. ♫ Cricket02 19:11, 29 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Icon

Gren's

The Wilhelm icon is oversized and intrusive. Its plain, its too wide, it creates white space, and it scrunches the aligned text. Can we reduce please. Ceoil 15:51, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Yep. The screenshot is mine from S.H.E ... Firefox 2.0.0.6 with standard settings? gren グレン 07:15, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sound samples

Is it just my browser, or does anyone else notice that the sound samples are ill-shaped within the page, and protrudes unto the written text of the article? Is anyone working on this, please? It's been like this for a while. Orane (talk) 19:19, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Great idea

I know, let's add a button that can crash browsers to Wikipedia because we love Vorbis so much. Yeah, great idea, let's do that! Reinistalk 18:54, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Playing works sometimes (Winamp)

When I click the sound-linked word in an article, Winamp automatically opens up and plays the audio file. However, if I go to the media page itself and click the play icon, or attempt to click media files in commons category pages, I get an error message telling me I don`t have the right software, prompting me to download the file or find a suitable player. Why is this? __meco (talk) 20:04, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Doesn't work (Windows XP (SP2 fully patched) and Latest Windows Media Player

After 20 minutes of following the instructions and trying to get this to work on the above system (probably the most often used in the World today), it still does not work. This is the major technical weakness in the Wikipedia today. We should either fix it soon or use mp3. Greenshed (talk) 00:53, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ditch OGG

Ogg is a nonstandard format no normal computer users use. Please make the switch to mp3. mp3 is also an open standard. Doshindude (talk) 03:17, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] I have a player

I do have a player that recognises these files but it is not recognised. I have to select "download file" then select "open" but the computer recognises that I have a player so maybe something is amiss. No problem playing.
ThisMunkey (talk) 00:05, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

I have one too-- click the button to play a sound, get an error message, click "more", click "download", and then select "OK" at which point my (firefox) browser fires up the gxine plugin and plays the sound with no problems. Can't this process be made to work in a simpler way? --Rtellason (talk) 06:01, 30 December 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Double Play

When I click on a "Listen to media" button, the clip plays twice, the second instance starts less than a second after the first starts, which creates a strange "echo" effect. Does anyone know how to stop this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.16.96.155 (talk) 13:09, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Same thing is happening to me - see Audio and video talk page. Cavie78 (talk) 13:43, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

I'm unable to find the "Audio and video talk page", but I think I've narrowed this problem down to whether or not the "target" attribute is specified in the embed tag. The alternative is to use the playlist object to add media, and when I do this I get double-playback on second and subsequent plays of the video. (There are other ill effects coupled with this phenomenon, too.) However, when I add the media using the target attribute, double-playback doesn't happen. 67.193.128.97 (talk) 04:45, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Replace Java with Flash

The embedded player for audio currently uses Java, which presents several drawbacks, at least of my machines:

  • It take almost 10 seconds to just load/initiate the applet before any control elements appear
  • Loading of Java in Internet Explorer on Windows, Firefox on Win and Mac and Safari on Mac completely freezes the browser for a few seconds during this load, which disrupts the browsing and is very annoying
  • The seek bar is Java is very unresponsive

If we would replace those Java applets with Flash, all of those problems would disappear. Loading of Flash content is instantaneous, the player is usable on all major operating systems (Win, Mac, Linux), widespread and would provide a much smoother experience. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.177.200.152 (talk) 10:57, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

Totally agreed. Personally, I refuse to install the bloated mess that is Java on any computer I own. ~ Keiji (iNVERTED) (Talk) 21:14, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Page implies MPEG-1 is propriety

Page states "Sound files on Wikipedia generally use the Vorbis audio format, and video files use the Theora format. These are roughly similar to other formats used to play digital audio and video such as MP3 and MPEG. The difference is that these Ogg formats are completely free, open, and unpatented." I certainly agree that MP3 in patent encumbered, and that MPEG-2 is patent encumbered, but MPEG-1 Video with Layer II Audio is patent unencumbered so far as I can tell. As in I have not been able to find any listed patents for it in several internet searches and also in asking on the gstreamer-devel mailing list. Basically, I'm asking for a fact check on claiming that all MPEG formats are not free, open and unpatented. Jrincayc (talk) 03:44, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

OGG uses the same technology as all the other formats - DCT block coding. How can one be sure it is less encumbered by patents? Besides, the vast majority of computers cannot play OGG, so it's annoying to see wikipedia try to shove it down our throats. It seems to be about politics. 24.16.88.14 (talk) 16:51, 2 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] God, this open-source zealotism is idiotic.

Exclude 99% of Wikipedia's audience from hearing audio and video files in articles, just because FLASH IS EVIL (tm) - and make them think "Oh well, Wikipedia is nice and all, but appearently they are too incompetent to put audio stuff in web sites. Oh well, it's free after all". Great publicity for the communist FLOSS movement :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.196.68 (talk) 11:05, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

[edit] Latest Version of Firefox

After having upgraded to the latest version of Firefox, I am no longer able to play off soundfiles. Any suggestions for solutions? I have already redownloaded Java and VLC, but to no avail. V85 (talk) 20:58, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

[edit] I see a lot of people are complaining that OGG doesn't work

  1. Go here: http://www.cccp-project.net/
  2. Install it. Leave all options at their default.
  3. Download your OGG file.
  4. Right click it and choose open with.
  5. Choose Zoom Player, and tick "Always open with this program".
  6. Stop complaining that OGG sucks and that Wikipedia should use MP3. OGG is an awesome format; you suck for not doing your research.
Side-note: I have to mention that I find the "Sorry, your system does not appear to have any supported player software. Please download a player" message very ignorant. If you want media to play in the browser, go make a Flash audio/video player. Otherwise, change that to say something like "Sorry, your browser does not appear to have any supported player plugins. Please either download a plugin, or download this file to listen/watch on your computer". I'm sure I can't be the only one who doesn't want his browser infested with a million laggy plugins - Flash is enough by itself.

~ Keiji (iNVERTED) (Talk) 21:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

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